I promised to blog more during my vacation, didn’t I? Seems I’m a filthy liar. Ah well.
I spent the first half of my holiday just completely lazing around, like a lizard in a cave. The second half I started to get back into things, slowly, but I didn’t really feel much like writing interesting blog updates. Especially since the thing I was doing, coding, didn’t really lend itself to being interesting.
But I did make a design change which might interest readers. I’ve decided to do 2 things :
1) Drop Charisma as a stat.
2) Depreciate the Social path.
I’ll explain what point 2 means, exactly, in a moment. For point 1, dropping Charisma, the reason is simple. It’s too much of a dump stat.
If you’re a veteran RPG’er, you have probably experienced the dump stat phenomenon. For any particular archetype, certain stats end up being dump stats, ie it is safe to ‘dump’ them.
I’ve tried to avoid this in SoW by making every stat at least partially useful to every character. But there is a trick here. If all stats are fairly vital you can’t easily specialize your character. But, on the other extreme, if you do what DnD does and make certain archetypes have little or no use for a stat then you create a situation where characters tend to be exceptionally good in half their stats (the ones which affect them) and exceptionally crap in the other half.
The functionally-retarded fighter, the mage who cannot lift more than two books at a time, these are both common archetypes in RPGs, far more so than the more balanced characters. Simply because the benefit from maximizing strength, endurance and agility vastly outweighs the penalties from minimizing intelligence, charisma and wisdom for a fighter type, and vice versa for the mage.
The only game I’ve seen which did this well was Fallout. To build a character who was exceptional in some area required taking on a real, meaningful penalty elsewhere. It made you really agonise over where to put those points instead of just defaulting to maximising the obvious optimal stats for your archetype and dropping everything else. You weren’t [18 18 18 6 6 3 ]
I think I’ve managed, for the most part, to do something similar with SoW. Except for one stat, Charisma. It’s not that hard to design the other stats so that they are all at least somewhat meaningful for the Warrior/Rogue/Mage archetypes. Charisma, not so much.
Also, I don’t want one archetype, the Speech Guy, to have 1 stat which is overwhelmingly the most meaningful, as it is boring if all you do is maximize Charisma, there is no interesting choice there, no variety.
So I decided to dump the dump stat and move Charisma’s responsibilities to other stats.
There are 4 main ‘social’ skills at this point (further adjustments were made to the skill system, I’ll update that in another post, but for now know that Bluff was folded into Persuasion and Sense Motive was folded into Detection ( the renamed Investigation skill ) ). These 4 social skills are Persuasion, Intimidation, Bartering and Seduction. Let me discuss which stats affect them now, and why :
Persuasion. The art of getting people to see things your way or believe that what you say is the truth. Affected by Intellect and Perception. Intellect to come up with cunning arguments and Perception to ‘read’ your target, to see how they react to your words and adjust accordingly. If you think about it for a moment, the traditional DnD model, why does a persuasive person have to have Charisma, aka personal magnetism?
It’s easy to imagine a greasy, fat, little merchant who just happens to have a silver tongue. I don’t know if I’d describe such a person as ‘charismatic’, I probably wouldn’t want to socialize with them, but that doesn’t mean they can’t be persuasive. That type of character’s persuasive abilities come from cunning more than ‘presence’. So I think Intellect + Perception is a good combo there.
Intimidation. Your ability to cow others, to stare them down. The art of projecting an aura of dominance and confidence. Affected by Strength and Willpower. Strength because an obvious display of physical power tends to be intimidating and Willpower to represent that “they locked gazes and his opponent was the first to look away” type of intimidation. Willpower represents mental strength so I think it fits there.
Bartering. The art of the deal. This is actually fairly similar to persuasion, if you think about it. And it’s affected by the same things, Intellect and Perception. For the same reasons.
Seduction. Seduction is a special case skill. It provides a bonus to Persuasion and Barter skills when used against members of the opposite sex and unlocks special seduction speech options in dialogue. This isn’t really intended to be a main skill (seduction is a support skill), but it is supposed to provide an interesting alternative path through certain scenarios.
Seduction, as a skill, provides less of a direct boost to your ability to seduce others than the Persuasion skill affects your ability to persuade (Don’t worry, it is also cheaper). This is because much of a character’s seduction ability comes from certain background traits you can pick at character creation only : ‘Beautiful/Ugly‘. Basically, if you want to play the Temptress/Casanova path, you’d pick the ‘Beautiful‘ background trait and maximise Seduction. If you don’t, your character is kinda average, even if you maximise Seduction you’ll never unlock the highest rank of seduction options. Pick ‘Ugly‘ and…well, people are superficial, good luck with that.
Anyway, the Seduction skill is affected by Strength and Agility (by less than the other skills are affected by their respective stats), representing that people who are fit and graceful tend to be more attractive.
But, as I said, even if you maximise this skill and your strength/agility you still won’t match a character who takes the ‘Beautiful’ background trait. Simply put, good genes trump everything.
Right, so let’s talk point 2 : Depreciating the Social Path. What does that mean?
Originally, my intention was for the game to support 4 main gameplay types : Warrior, Rogue, Mage and Diplomat. By support I mean that I wanted the design to allow those to be 4 distinct paths through the game, that a player could specialise as a thief and be able to avoid combat by taking the thief path, etc. This doesn’t mean that hybrids aren’t supported, SoW is a classless, skill-based system after all. But the intention is that if you focus on one path you can get through without being stuck because you don’t have the others. A character who is a thief should never have a scripted event force them into a room where there is no place to hide and they have to fight a powerful warrior. No changing the playing field like what happened in VtM:B.
The diplomat path is, however, problematic. Let me explain some of the issues :
1) The binary nature of Speech checks. The problem with speech checks is you generally either succeed or fail. So, what happens if you fail? You’re boned.
With combat or stealth it isn’t like this. The mechanics generate a range of successes and failures per action which, over time, result in overall success of failure. Think about combat. You hit, you miss, generally the battle isn’t decided by whether you fail a single roll unless you’re taking on an exceptionally deadly opponent. Likewise for stealth, NPCs have varying levels of alertness, you can run away or take actions to distract if guards are alerted, etc.
But lets say the design allows a diplomatic character to talk his way out of a combat encounter, lets say a bandit ambush. Fail a roll and what happens? The bandits attack and you die?
So, I hear you saying, add more checks! Well, there is a problem here. A particular dialogue scenario isn’t the output of underlying mechanics interacting, like stealth and combat are. Each line is written by me. So lets say you fail a check. Now I have to add a branch to give you a second/alternative chance. But two missteps is still an incredibly tight margin. It will also get silly, with me writing tense, dangerous dialogue situations where the NPC keeps giving you another chance to convince them after you fail any particular skill check. Not to mention more complicated.
Short of making the dialogue loop and giving the player the option to come back and run through the exact same dialogue they just failed when they have increased their skills (ugh), it’s a thorny problem. In real life, dialogue is dynamic and generated on the fly. But because computer dialogue is limited by how much writing I can do it suffers from this particular issue.
2) Gameplay length. Let’s say I create a cool mansion zone where you have to get into the inner sanctum and acquire some item. I carefully setup the zone and provide different paths for different characters. Rogues stealth around, avoiding patrols, finding sneaky ways in. Warriors may simply attempt to force their way through. And mages use magic tricks to do the same thing. Overall, lets say the level takes 2 hours to play.
Now let’s imagine the diplomatic path. Do you think it would be 2 hours? In all likelihood it will be a couple of dialogues with a couple of checks here and there. Even if I send you around to different NPCs for chats, the length of time probably comes from travelling to and fro more than the reading of dialogue.
Now imagine the entire game like that. The diplomatic path would be a fraction of the game length of any other path.
3) Talents. In addition to skills that players can increase, characters in SoW get Talent points to spend at each level on customising their character (note, you don’t get any other benefit from leveling up and your level is simply based on how many skill points you’ve acquired, once you pass a certain threshold you’re considered ‘level 2′ and get a Talent point or three to spend.)
Let me give you some examples of Talents :
Hungry For the Kill
Ranks : 1-3
Every time you score a critical hit, you are restored 10/20/30% of your maximum Stamina.
———-
Desperate Offence
Ranks : 1-3
When your hit points drop to below 20%, your Attack Rating, Attack Speed and Damage are increased by 20/40/60%.
———-
Sniper
Ranks : 1-3
Increases chance of critical hit when using a Focused Shot by 10/20/30%.
———-
Time to Scarper
Ranks : 1-2
When hit critically, you gain +15/30% Dodge Rating and Movement Speed for 10 seconds.
———-
Metamagic Mastery
Ranks :1-5
Each level of this skill decreases the cost of using metamagic techniques by 5% while increasing the benefit by 5%.
———-
Ok, so it isn’t hard to come up with a range of interesting Talents for combat, stealth and magic. But not so much with Social skills. The problem is thinking of Talents that grant new functionality or modify existing functionality instead of just making you better at the same things the social skills do. I do have a few talents, but fewer than for combat, stealth and magic. The mechanics behind dialogue checks are simply less complex than the other realms so they have less place for interesting quirks, mechanically.
Some examples :
Poker Face
Ranks : 1
Gain +2 to Persuasion checks when lying or hiding the truth.
———-
Intimidating Presence
Ranks : 1-3
Increases Dodge Rating by 100/200/300% of your Intimidate Skill level.
———-
Antiques Dealer
Ranks : 1-3
When selling Rare, Exotic or Antique items, you get a 20/40/60% boost to the base value of the object for purposes of sales checks, as you convince your target that the item is worth more than it is.
———-
4) Equipment. Let’s face it : acquiring new gear is fun. Like talents, there are a vast array of cool items you can design to support warriors, rogues and mages. Social types? Um, costumes, maybe? Fashionable gear? Which doesn’t do much more than give you a boost to your social skills, resulting in a less-than-fun game of ‘change outfit before every dialogue to match the social group’.
Perhaps I lack imagination but I just think that social equipment is hard to make interesting without a lot more context and mechanical subtlety than is standard in RPG social interactions. I never claimed SoW would revolutionise dialogue. It’s got traditional dialogue trees and checks, that’s it.
Ok, so those are the issues. So what do I mean, “depreciating the social path”? I mean it is no longer a stand-alone game path. Instead, I’ve folded the Rogue and Social skills into one group called ‘Agent’ skills. ‘Agent’ because it is more of a neutral term than ‘Rogue’.
The way I figure it, while Warrior archetypes tend to confront challenges head on, to match raw strength against raw strength, Agents are characters who use their skills to circumvent problems or find ways to give themselves an advantage. They sneak around guards, they pick the lock on the back door, they lure foes into traps, they use their quick tongues to get themselves out of problems or to circumvent the ‘human barriers’ of others. They exploit the loopholes in the system, find the weak points. Agents are spies, assassins, scouts, thieves and diplomats.
I’m not getting rid of speech options, far from it. I’m simply saying that speech options are one of the tools of the Agent’s trade, not a completely independent path through SoW. If you fail a Persuasion skill check, your fallback may be needing to sneak in, or picking a lock, not necessarily another dialogue. Or, should you be a hybrid character, thwacking things with a sword.















