Just though I’d take a moment to address this, since a comment someone made in a correspondance recently leads me to believe there may be some confusion here. Basically, the comment was wondering about the inclusion of the more magical races in SoW.

People might have gotten the wrong impression when I said SoW was “realistic” fantasy. I think people interpretted that as “low fantasy”.

Now, to me they are two different things but my definition may be the wonky one, so let me elaborate.

Low fantasy settings are ones which have fantasy elements, ie things which don’t/can’t exist in the real world, but those elements are rare. For the most part, the world is fairly similar to our world. Conan and suchlike is often pointed to as low fantasy.

Because low fantasy is closer to our world, low fantasy is often gritty, darker, more realistic in it’s characters, motivations and scenarios. 

Realistic fantasy, to me, is simply fantasy where the characters, motivations and scenarios are more realistic, mature (not in the pr0n sense ;) ). Sure, there are fantasy elements, but people react to them in a realistic manner. Good examples are Steven Eriksson’s Tales of the Malazan Book of the Fallen series, and games like Vampire the Masquerade. Still plenty of fantastic elements but the characters, their motivations and actions all reflect the moral ambiguity and difficulties of the real world, the way that things in life are rarely ever clear-cut, how problems can’t easily be solved by whacking them with a sword till they’re dead.

The reason I clarify SoWs fantasy in that way is because I feel that most fantasy video games throw out realistic characters and interactions even as they add in giant, scaled lizards. Fantasy has this association with simplistic escapism. Developers seem to aim at people who want to escape from the difficulties of the real world into a simple black/white, good/bad  setting, where players can be heroes, save the day and rescue the princess.

This is why I feel the need to call SoW “realistic” or “gritty”. Because realistic characters and interactions seem to be out of vogue, if they were ever in vogue, and fantasy by default seems to be 2D escapsim. I don’t want to call it “dark” because it isn’t especially focused on grimness, terror and gore, the aim is not to shock sensibilities. I simply aim to reflect the realities of the real world, which are themselves often complicated, uncertain and,  yes, even grim. (Also, I don’t call it that because I imagine some pimpled teenager who goes by the moniker “DarkReaper666″ online wetting his pants in excitement every time I read about a game that calls itself “dark”.) 

And why am I designing SoW in this way, to be realistic instead of escapist fantasy? Because…I’m unsatisfied. You see, I think I’ve grown away from mainstream video games. I used to think it was the fault of the game development houses, but it isn’t. It’s me. I grew up, my sensibilities and thinking changed, and the games didn’t. They are still making games for that demographic that I used to belong to, and that’s fine, in the business sense, even if it doesn’t make me especially happy. I’m grown now, my mind rejects simple story premises and easy solutions, I find two-dimensional, cliched characters uninteresting and I have become annoyed at seeing the same plots recycled, game after game. I don’t have a problem with these kinds of games existing, everyone has a right to play games they enjoy, but I hunger for titles that will satisfy my own tastes. 

With this in mind, I am creating the type of game I would want to play. It won’t be the same as playing someone elses game, sure, but creating something is satisfying in other ways.

This entry was posted on Wednesday, February 25th, 2009 at 11:57 am and is filed under Game Design Ramblings, SoW - Development Diary. You can follow any responses to this entry through the RSS 2.0 feed. You can leave a response, or trackback from your own site.

9 comments so far

Kris
 1 

Speaking of Erikson, did you make it to the last (published) book yet? What a great series. Also, I strongly identify with outgrowing the main stream genre (though, I am a giddy as a schoolgirl over D3); as a result, I play a lot fewer games. Probably a good thing. I will, however, make an exception for SoW. I’m hoping you finish up development while I’m sill young enough to see my monitor. :P

February 25th, 2009 at 8:19 pm
GarethF
 2 

Not yet, I detoured through some other books that took my fancy, some sci-fi and the like. Erikson’s books are so long that I like to take a dip into other genres in between, to keep things from becoming stale.

About the outgrowing thing, and D3 : Me too! I think the reason series like Diablo are more resistant to the outgrowing effect is because their core focus is on mechanics with the setting and story more for context, whereas RPGs for me have always been primarily about story, characters, dialogue and interaction, with things like combat and loot collection as an enjoyable sideline to the main fare.

I think good mechanics are a bit more resistant to being outgrown than writing.

February 25th, 2009 at 8:40 pm
Kris
 3 

“Not yet, I detoured through some other books that took my fancy”

Ouch. Unless you have a memory like a steel trap (or just don’t care that you miss stuff), you’re in for a rough ride. I have never in my life read a series that teased my memory more than this one. For example, I found myself, in book five, cracking open three earlier books, just to figure out what the hell he was talking about (and I read them all one after the other, save one).

Oh, and I agree with you about game mechanics, and I will also add polish, and a relatively bug free product, to that list. I did, after all, play Hellgate: London ~ thus tapping out my lifetime tolerance for game bugs.

February 25th, 2009 at 10:13 pm
Jay
 4 

It may have been my comments on your races that triggered these reflections! Or perhaps not.

I think I have an additional personal criterion for “realistic fantasy”. Not only should the genre feature nuanced dynamics reflecting the true depth of human experience, but the _implications_ of all fantasy elements should be very thoroughly thought out and incorporated back into the fantasy setting. Some examples:

1. I played a DnD campaign many, many years ago where the dungeon master had our very overpowered party lay siege to the castle of some terrible foe. We were allied with a silver dragon at the time so I suggested that we simply have the dragon pick up some big rocks and spend the afternoon dropping them on the city from altitude while we all played cards back home. What *are* the implications of silver dragons for our classic conception of siege warfare?

2. Neal Stephenson’s “The Diamond Age.” I thought this book was brilliant, mainly because of how the author had explored many of the implications an age of nanotechnology. The air was thick with clouds of little droids doing all sorts of things. He introduced the concept into the wilderness of his fantasy landscape and then thought good and hard about how that landscape would respond.

All that to say that SoW does already strike me as realistic fantasy, and I am delighted! For me the SoW take on magic and religion is brilliant.

At the same time, feline and undead races give me pause because of the additional effort that (I think) must be taken to fully integrate these concepts into the fantasy world, on top of all the other ones. It’s a grand undertaking. I think I would personally opt to keep the number of fantasy elements lower in order to spend more time weaving them tightly into the game world, and to preserve focus on just a few really cool ideas. But that’s me.

Jay

February 25th, 2009 at 11:21 pm
Jay
 5 

Reflecting further on this concept, I think that “deep thinking” in general characterize the games I like to play. Is there anything more off-putting than games with glaring holes in their internal logic?

http://www.penny-arcade.com/comic/2009/1/5/

And conversely, a game (or story) that can deliver surprisingly well-integrated elements is almost always worth playing. This could also be considered another way of looking at the “choices and consequences” concept of play.

Anyways, always fun :)

Jay

P.S. Sweet new blog.

February 25th, 2009 at 11:26 pm
Jay
 6 

I think I overlooked a classic example of the power of fully incorporating even just one novel concept:

“The Gods Must Be Crazy”
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Gods_Must_Be_Crazy

Question: “What would happen if we introduced one, and only one, novel object with unknown properties into a population”

Answer: A funny, thought-provoking movie :P

February 25th, 2009 at 11:59 pm
Daniel
 7 

Interesting. Whether the setting manages to maintain a decent cohesion when you play it ingame will be interesting to see. I find that whilst my natural preference generally lies with ‘low’ fantasy (George RR Martin, etc) realistic fantasy as you call it can often lend to a more interesting and unique setting. I remember you did a post on how the existence of magic would change the class system in a medieval period.

Mind you, there are a ton of pitfalls with this approach, especially in game design. Whilst Sapkowski’s books do that whole gig pretty well, I found the Witcher’s monsters to be thrown in for variety’s sake more than anything else, which can undercut such a design philosophy and make it veer more towards the high fantasy style, at least in feel.

Are there going to be a ton of miscellaneous foes in the Atharian countryside, or have you been fairly cohesive with regards to that sort of thing?

February 26th, 2009 at 12:12 am
GarethF
 8 

@Jay :

“It may have been my comments on your races that triggered these reflections! Or perhaps not.”

Yes, yes it was.

“the _implications_ of all fantasy elements should be very thoroughly thought out and incorporated back into the fantasy setting.”

Agreed. Doing my best. :)

“At the same time, feline and undead races give me pause because…”

Hax! I need to counter the notion that Shar are cat people. I knew that would be a problem. My trick will be to create characters which look feral or animalistic without looking like anthromorphic animals.

Dammit, need to be a better illustrator…

@ Daniel :

“Are there going to be a ton of miscellaneous foes in the Atharian countryside, or have you been fairly cohesive with regards to that sort of thing?”

Nope. Two reasons : I think you dilute the effectiveness of monsters when there are a gajillion of them, and in endless variety, they end up all being a blurry mass of claws in the players mind. So I’m going for more humans/humanoid enemies with a few animals/psuedo animals, for the most part. Monsters will be the exception and hopefully interesting.

Also, none of this “you step outside town and get assaulted by waves or monsters” crap. How do people farm, travel, trade etc if the areas outside town are completely overrun with badness? Makes no sense.

So “wandering enemy encounters” only where it makes sense. Deep in the wilderness, in parts of Mirtar where remnants of the invaders still lurk, etc.

February 26th, 2009 at 4:29 pm
Jay
 9 

Hmmm. Alright, so much for the “cat people”. What of the undead! Seems like a tough one to implement well. All-new dialogue chains? It bugged me that the native elves in Morrowind, for example, treated a fellow dark elf the same as any other race. Surely there should be either special sympathy or antipathy.

But we all now you are dedicated to this project, so “more power to you” if you can pull it all off :)

February 27th, 2009 at 2:22 am

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